Isn't it fascinating that some of the most romantic poems, songs, and such come from gay writers? Not all, but a lot. And not all of them are black and white gay or straight. It has been speculated that Shakespeare was possibly bisexual, Dickinson may or may not have been bisexual and Walt Whitman was obviously gay. Melissa Etheridge writes the most BEAUTIFUL heart-wrenching lyrics about love, and she is a great big lesbian (not that she herself is great or big, but that she is totally, 100%, indisputably a lesbian)
I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that the bat for their own teams, but the search for love brings forth these raw emotions. Love is such a powerful thing, the ability to do so plated deep within our beings, and without which some feel they can not survive. It is the story of the love birds; one can not live without the other. It's The Notebook where the elderly couple give up living in eachother's arms and take their trip into eternity together. Gays have a ridiculously hard time finding 'the one' for a lot of reasons: most people who are gay (if not all) go through this period in their lives where they have to hide their sexuality and actually deny it to those they love the most. In this point in their lives, they may fall in love with someone that they end up turning their backs upon because society deems their lifestyle unethical. Can you imagine? If ever you have thought poorly about someone on the terms of their sexuality, think about having to muffle and bury your inner lover, think about forcing yourself to turn yourself off to love!
The search for, denial of and final embrace of love for somebody makes it so much more explosive when you finally allow yourself to enjoy it. There is my theory as to why homosexuals and bisexuals write some of the most beautiful poetry and prose about love.
Now how about if I throw in a crazy controversial picture just to see what y'all think!? How do you feel when you look at this picture? The way you answer this question should tell you a lot about yourself; Do you feel offended? Disgusted? Jealous? I feel very happy that love like this exists, whether or not they both have penises. I find it beautiful, because love, my friends, IS beauty. 
Honestly, I'm not going to lie...the picture really bothers me.
ReplyDeleteLove is love and a person can't help who they fall in love with. You can't choose who you love. Also, I understand that some people can't help the way they are.
But, there are just as many great love poems and stories written by straight writers. Straight writers, who have actually experienced love: romantic, erotic, and marital. Take John Dunne for instance, he wrote hundreds of love poems to his wife. His wife. And they're some of the most beautiful love poems I've ever read. He dives into what it's like to be passionately in love with someone who also loves you back in front of the world. Someone you can give your life to; in his case, his wife. If that's not love, then I don't know what is.
Straight people search for love just as much as gays. Some straight people, like homosexuals, never find it. Also, everyone has to suppress their sexuality to a certain extent. Granted, most people don't have to hide their sexual orientation, but it's still not something you can just come out in the open about. Take for example: two people just meet, a man and woman, they both fall for each other and secretly both of them want the other one. Where does it go from there? If a woman did where you and I both know it would go, society would look down on her for it. A straight woman has sexual barriers on her just as much as a lesbian. If a woman, a straight woman, made love to any man she felt sexually attracted to, she would be labeled as a used-up slut. So, like lesbians, she also has to suppress or hide her sexual desires.
Furthermore, homosexuality is unnatural and morally unsound. Biologically, it does not make any sense to want to have sex with someone you cannot reproduce with. That defeats the entire purpose of sex: procreation. Yes, I agree that people experience feelings of sexual desire for someone because of love, but from a biological standpoint: those sexual feelings arise because of our innate, programmed, natural need to procreate, to have children. Homosexuals either have a chemical imbalance or they have a deep-rooted pyschological issue.
I think that homosexuals should come out with their feelings, openly confront their seuxal desires, and make an effort to change them. Once they face it and attempt to change it (medical help, counseling), then they will begin to live happier lives without any embarrassment or hiding.
Yes, love is love. But, there are different types of love and they are not all equal.
Oh goodness. First, I enjoy a debate, and just want to put a disclaimer, that if we have this discussion, I want you to know that I am no way attacking you, and I am always enjoying your opinion, but I have to say right off the bat that I don't want you at any point to take my points of view personally.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I am so with you, heteros have every bit as much difficulty finding love, because the 'game' itself is a cruel one. I just find it sort of one of my many jobs in life to help people who have never wanted to open their minds to different outlooks understand a different point of view. I am very in love with my husband, who is a MAN and would not change that for the world, but in my first hand experience I think it is an ignorant statement to say that it's some sort of chemical imbalance or psychological issue...no way, jose :)
My mom was with my father for thirteen years and had four kids with him. SHe was absolutely miserable my whole life and I can honestly say that I never knew my mother until she divorced my dad and met Rhonda, her wife, who walked me down the aisle on my wedding day. My mom is flourishing because she finally found a way to make herself happy.
Procreation is not the only reason to make love. If ever you've worn a condom you know that, but beyond that, there are straight couples who can't have children, but stay together because they're in love. Maybe if the man chose another lady he'd find that he could have children, or sometimes the male is infertile...whatever the case, all love, functional or not is equal and legitimate, maybe some moreso than others, but not on the basis of gender issues, rather on the foundations of trust and happiness and bonds.
I want you to know that I am in way attacking you either. I like you and think we have an intelluctual discussion without bringing the other one down.
ReplyDeleteBut, I beg you this: if homosexuality is not a chemical imbalance of psychological disorder, then what is it? It is completely unnatural.
And yes, my fiance and I (along with you and your husband I'm sure--I'm sorry if I'm stepping out of bounds here-- and many other couples) have used birth control, simply because neither one of us want children at this point in our lives. People make love simply becuase they are in love. I totally agree there. I don't want anyone but my fiance, because I love him. Lovemaking for the pure sake of love is not my point. Rather my point is instead, WHY we have sexual desires/attractions. Why are men attracted to women and vice versa? Because we have it genetically programmed into us to be sexually attracted to the other gender to procreate.
One of my cousins is gay, actually. And I firmly believe that it sprung from his childhood. His father never did anything with him and his mother babied him his whole life. Also, my aunt can't cook (nor clean) at all and she raised her children on fast food. So with the combination of poor nutrition, lack of a father figure, and an overprotective mother, no wonder why he turned out gay.
People make love because of love, but people desire sex because of our natural need to procreate.
Lastly, a person can love someone of the same sex (take a girlfriend, for example), but still not want to sleep with her. But why? Between both girls, there is (as you put) "foundations of trust and happiness and bonds." But then why don't they make love? It's simple: it's gentically/biologically unnatural.
I'm glad we can have this discussion/debate without personally attacking the other one. I think it's very civilized and ladylike of us. =) By the way, I'm glad your mother is happy. :)
Thanks! It does give me faith in people when I find that this discussion can be brought up maturely.
ReplyDeleteUm, I don't know why people are gay, mainly because nobody does, but if it were some sort of chemical inbalance don't you think that they would be less able to function as adults, when they are perfectly normal, civilized people? One of the biggest arguments I've heard is that it is a chemical imbalance, which is interesting, although I think incorrect. When I watched Whitman's bio, though, I was kind of interested to know that all of his siblings were severely retarded or crazy. It did make me think about that side of the coin.
I definitely have (and do) used birth control, because it is a smart thing to do especially in this day and age, but I just can't accept that sex is simply to procreate...It feels good--it feels GREAT! :) I think that if child-rearing were the only reason for sex, it wouldn't feel good. Did you know that Dolphins are the only other animal that have sex for pleasure?
You're right, it is a human need to have sex, and that the core of it has to be a subconscious programming to have babies, but when people are born gay, they don't have that desire to make love to the opposite sex. It doesn't mean that they don't want kids and some adopt and make amazing parents...and I think that's perfectly healthy. And in response to your last question, I have to say simply that two girlfriends who love eachother CAN have sex, if they choose to, and that is one of the beautiful things of our lifetime. There may be no penetration, but they can make eachother feel good. (And they have all kinds of freaky toys out there if they feel the need:) See ya in class! Thanks for the good debate! I really enjoy it when my antics don't piss people off, because sometimes they do, even when I don't mean it!!
All I want to say is that I agree that people make love simply for love. I'm making a difference between lovemaking and sex. Lovemaking: when you have sex for love. Sex: biological desire to procreate.
ReplyDeleteAnd I didn't know that about dolphins. And I completely agree with you that it feels absolutely wonderful, so along with that and love, is a reason in itself. But I'm talking about physical attraction and desire to have sex, aside from loving someone.
By the way, I accidentally forgot to put "not" in the first paragraph of my last comment. I was hoping you read it like I intended: I'm in way no way trying to attack you. Just to clarify. =)
Great debate you two! Its so inspiring to read such thoughtful and provoking things. I think these are the kinds of discussions that need to be had in order to build tolerance of things that are different from what we know. Ignorance breeds hate and all sorts of ugly things I won't mention.
ReplyDeleteI know I missed this discussion by a few days but I would like to butt in and give my two cents if you don't mind. I think I am with Chrystal on this topic. While I have had no personal experience with feelings of being gay...I have so many dear friends who are. They are truly decent and loving human beings who feel most comfortable being friends with woman and being loved by men. While I feel the same way...that is accepted because I am a woman...but sadly because they are men it is not. I believe that this is something they were born feeling just as I was born feeling it. I had to laugh at the chemical imbalance and family issues reasoning...no offense. I just found it funny that there has to be a "reason" for this "abnormal" behavior. Look, I have a chemical imbalance in my brain and it doesn't make me gay...it make's me depressed. I'm not saying there isn't some kind of different chemical that when unbalanced gives you different sexual tendancies...but I'm not sure that's the real answer here.
When other people don't understand why something happens they must always find a reason so they can rationalize how it all happened. Sometimes you have to accept that there are reasons beyond our understanding and just accept them. Just like our politics may differ so will our views on what love is and how it should be conducted. My feeling is that love is love and is beautiful no matter who is doing the loving as long as they are being true to their feelings and to themselves. Life is a crazy little thing and is a gift to us all...we should stop judging and condemning people for their differences and embrace and appreciate it. The great thing about life is that we all get to be our own unique individuals and get to meet other different and unique individuals that make life interesting and fun. I would miss the gay people in life...they are an anomoly from me just like people who watch Nascar and drink beer...I don't think they are depraved and need counseling...they just have different ideas about what they like and dislike.
I would rather spend my time appreciating the fact that I finally found love...which is difficult to do...and that I have the kind of life I wish to live. Even if other people think it is wrong or different for whatever reasons...it is mine to do with as I choose. Just like for gay men and women...God bless them I hope they find love too...no matter how wrong or different people think it is. Besides...we are all so much more than our sexual identity and preferences...
Thanks for letting me weigh in on this topic...I so love to discuss hot issues like this because I think all too often people are afraid to talk about "taboo" things like this. Maybe its because they peronalize everything far too much and take it as a personal affront if people don't agree with them. I'm not sure...?
Man, a civil discussion about homosexuality. This is refreshing. I'm going to start this by saying that a number of my favorite writers are gay. I am as appalled as the next person when I hear of gay kids getting picked on or violent atrocities like what happened in Laramie, WY. That "God hates fags" church that goes everywhere with their signs and screams at people are absolutely disgusting in my eyes. People are people are people. What makes America great is that this is a country where we can say what we believe and not be shut up by the government.
ReplyDeleteMy belief that homosexuality is immoral stems from my personal beliefs. I actually wish that it wasn't in the Bible that homosexuality was a sin, but it is. If I start picking and choosing things in the Bible to obey, then I might as well write my own rules. If you don't think the Bible is true or accurate, that's another discussion that I'm willing to have.
To sum up, it's something I'm conflicted on. I don't agree with it as a lifestyle, but I don't hate gay people. I don't avoid them. I find it offensive when people use the word "gay" to describe something negative. I just don't agree with their lifestyle, just as a militant atheist would disagree with me being a person of faith.
If I seem like I'm over explaining myself, it's because I feel like our culture tries to polarize this issue, that you either want gays to die or you embrace the lifestyle and think that Brokeback Mountain is the best movie ever (it's not and the short story is far better). I don't find my perspective expressed and, frankly, it's a little frightening to share it. I think that there is a lot of hate directed at those who say they don't agree with certain ideas and lifestyles in the name of "tolerance." If you want to be truly tolerant, you disagree respectfully and find a way to live together. Tolerance is not expecting everyone to agree with your view.
Well said Will! Your definition of tolerance is awesome...I'm going to have to use that in the future...if you don't mind.
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